POLYGAMY BOOKS: Recent Comments

Comment on A REPLY TO ERASTUS

2010-02-05T18:49:57Z

I wasn't asking you to respect any Fundamentalist leadership, but just letting you know that the tone used in your posts was unlikely to incline Fundamentalists to make the comments you seemed disappointed you weren't receiving from them.

People don't tend to be endeared by those who speak impolitely about their beliefs, and seem to insult them for those beliefs. It doesn't give those reading it the impression that they will be able to engage in a reasonable and congenial discussion with you.

Just to pick out one point - Fundamentalists consider D&C 132 to require commitments from both men and women. Under their beliefs if a man disregards it he too is in danger of damnation. I've heard some women even say that it is a principle that is harder on the men than them, and others who say they find it a liberating way of life that grants them greater respect and freedom. I recognize that this has not been some peoples experience, but for those who do take this view a tirade against polygamy would not be taken seriously, and is unlikely to be responded to.

Comment on HOW CAN I ENCOURAGE MORE COMMENTS?

2010-01-28T06:41:35Z

I would presume that A.U.B. members are reticent to enter into a dialog due to the disrespectful way in which them and their beliefs are described in many of your postings.

Perhaps their leaders made a mistake (or several), but perhaps they realize that they we are all imperfect, and leave God to make the judgments and hold others to account.

Their testimony of the principles Fundamentalists believe in are not dependent on their leaders' perfection or otherwise. They are largely peaceful people who are happy to help their neighbors, although antagonism and misrepresentation does make their lives more difficult.

Comment on HILL VS. JENSON ET. AL.- AUGMENTATION UPDATED

2010-01-20T20:08:00Z

This is just a small fraction of what the AUB leaders have taken. These men flatter the members by telling them they can become gods. They take their money and deliver nothing in exchange except some silly ceremonies. If the IRS would look at what is going on, all of the leaders would be in prison for life.

Comment on Supreme Court Ruling - Part 4

2009-12-16T04:34:35Z

John,
Another well written and accurate description of the Virginia Hill case. People like Mahonri can bark back all they want but it won't change the fact that AUB and its leaders were clearly involved in trying to launder a significant amount of cash through their religious organization....to build up the kingdom of God no doubt....NOT! This is the same AUB that forces nude rituals on their members in an endowment house in Bluffdale. AUB members are made to sign a legal waiver, without warning, just prior to the endowment ceremony. If these nude rituals were in any way above board why in Gods name would AUB leaders require a signed waiver of responsibility??? The hour glass has finally run out on the AUB group as it has with the FLDS group. Consequences to criminal acts and human rights violations are long, long, overdue for the AUB. Mahonri, there is NO truth or justice in criminal activity and human rights violations. Please join other AUB members who have "seen the light" and are moving forward to stop these dishonest acts being conducted under the guise of religion!

Comment on Hill vs. AUB update - 10-25-09

2009-11-16T04:17:44Z

Keep up the good work!

Patric

Comment on Women Amenable to Mormon Polygamy

2009-11-15T18:24:04Z

I have been reading up on the AUB a bit. (No intention of joining: I'm not even on the correct continent to meet someone from the AUB) Could you give some insights into the AUB and Blacks? Especially now with Obama. Are they absolutely no dissenters (whether quiet or not) to the racism?

Comment on Rebutting Mahonri

2009-10-20T12:04:37Z

John,

Decriminalizing polygamy WILL NOT give psuedo-prophets like Jim Harmston a free pass to take sexual advantage of their followers. Regardless of the state of the law, we both know there is a tremendous difference between the likes of the Fundamentalist prophets and most of their followers.

The laws against bigamy had no effect what so ever on Jim Jones and David Koresh (non-mormons) , both of whom victimized their flocks sexually. It will always be that unscrupulous religious leaders will use their positions to their personal advantage.

Likewise it is impossible to stop the incredulous and those wanting someone else to make their decisions from becoming involved in religious and/or political cults. Life is a dirty business and the law cannot save everyone from their bad decisions.

All I am suggesting is the removal of legal barriers to those who have been mislead by cult leaders and are branded criminals by the law when they have had enough and wish to leave. Certainly most will never leave as they believe their salvation is a stake but how often is the bigamy statute used in any case other than as a "social club" to knock all polygamists about the head.

It is a sad day when homosexuals, who define their personal identity by sodomous sexual acts, are accepted in the greater society and their sexual behavior decriminalized while polygamists whose sexual acts are what most people consider "normal" ie: between opposite sexes are reviled.

No double standard here of course.

In using an atheist like Richard Dawkins to make an argument supporting the continued criminalization of polygamy is nothing more than a red herring. What does it matter in this discussion if there is a God or not?

You do mention something of importance that the "nurturing" of people is important. People branded as criminals by default are a whole lot less likely to let the greater society "nurture" them away from a cult if they aren't regarded criminals by default.

In most situations there are adequate laws to prosecute religious leaders accused of sexual misconduct.

Consensual bigamy is only enforced in the rarest of occasions (like Tom Green thumbing his nose at society) but he was also guilty of other laws. We have a situation her similar to Prohibition; enforcement of consensual polygamy just isn't happening and the statute is ignored, which by the way, teaches disrespect for the law.

Enforce it or get rid of it.

I'm interested in knowing when you were ever censored by anyone... let alone religious leaders. If they try they surely don't know you.

Mahonri

Comment on Why Decriminalization Is A Bad Idea

2009-10-15T02:26:07Z

There is a fallacy to the argument against decriminalizing polygamy.

The argument are based on the bad behavior of some break away groups from the LDS Church. Their behavior basically is abhorrent and against what polygamy is all about. It's another family organization and shouldn't be illegal because a few groups are breaking OTHER laws which are covered in your thesis. Those laws should stand while making polygamy legal.

If we didn't have those laws broken then really, what is the problem with living this lifestyle.

As as far as homosexual marriage goes, bisexuals are left out of marriage. They are forced to choose which sex they want for their significant other. Smacks of discrimination to me.

Comment on Supreme Court Ruling - Part 4

2009-10-08T21:55:36Z

John,

Looks like you are back on the Internet with a vengeance! You write an interesting piece about Virginia Hill and how some of the AUB leaders took her money.

Based on what you have written and some "scuttlebutt" floating around the Fundamentalist communities, is this a case where Ms. Hill was trying to hide her assets and was a willing partner in a scheme she lost control of? After all, there is no honor among thieves...

You know as well as I do that truth and justice aren't necessarily found in the same courtroom.

What percentage of any award the court orders are you and Rod Williams expecting from Virginia Hill for your work?

Attorney's usually take at least fifty percent on contingency in these kind of lawsuit and they damn sure don't share any of that with investigators.

What do you think, will you get twenty years of the tithing you paid to AUB back? Inquiring minds want to know!

Comment on Mormon Fundamentalism Often Leads To Atheism

2009-03-01T01:10:43Z

Actually, Anonymous, when it comes to civilizations, particularly in the time frame to which you refer, lack of evidence is pretty damning. There is no way that a civilization of the scope and numbers that Joseph Smith described in the BoM could have existed without leaving an impact on the rest of the continent. Words would be found, coins, signature methods for creating tools, all sorts of clues should be found. The fact that they haven't been found is fairly decisive evidence that the people of the Book of Mormon never existed. As an example, just one group of people from Polynesia made it to the coast of California (I believe I have those two right.) and left an imprint in words and the way boats were made in that location afterwards. However, no ONE reputable artifact, book, tablet, graveyard or even tool has EVER been found that backs up the BoM account of America's history. If those people existed in the numbers stated, there's no way they would have left no impact -- it's simply not rationally possible.